15 February 2005 @ 01:00 pm
On labels and definitions  
So I have a friend at work who I often end up lunching with in the staff room at work. Rob has his own site on which he keeps a diary, it often makes for amusing, albeit erratic, reading. So imagine my surprise to find myself mentioned. I've copied the entry from Rob's site and the email I just sent him as well. And yup, Rob, if you're reading - I'm not attacking at all, I'm just amused you see me as nothing more than a fandom.



"Most of the staff-room people watch the soaps. That's an hour per evening minimum with the core two soaps (or an hour and a half if they watch local pap-a-thon, River City). Among their number is a girl (whose lunchly company I value a great deal and over whom I feel terribly guilty in attacking in these pages) who obsesses over Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the other televisual works of Joss Whedon to the extent that she manages a website dedicated to them, accumulates the merchandise as any good fan would; and actually stresses over getting her fan fiction written 'on time'. She essentially lives in (and seems to single-handedly maintain) that one culture. What kind of attitude is that to have? It's the polar opposite of 'see everything once': 'see one mediocre thing, analyse it to the nth degree and stay there'. Incidentally, there hasn't been any new Buffy on television for about two years. I can't believe anyone would still want to commit more than a passing comment on the subject. "
 
 
I object!
 
I have never ever watched a soap opera!
 
And it's actually six websites and two forums...
 
*g*
 
Seriously though, I get what you mean about becoming integrated into one 'culture' to the extent that it becomes the sole focus of one's life. On the other hand I would also point out that my involvement with 'fandom' is but one aspect of what goes on in my every-day life, as is true for most of the people I know within that (and other) 'fandoms'.
 
I disagree that anyone can be defined by their participation in a culture, whether that is centred around a television programme, an ideological viewpoint or a three-month old grape that fell behind the sofa and has bred it's own race of mutant bacteria. People are tricky things, they cannot be defined by labels.
 
Did you know for instance that I have a huge interest in anthropology? That I am actually on forums discussing Joseph Campbell and his writings? That I am fascinated by Egyptology to the extent that I can name pretty much all of the current theorists in that field?
 
I also have a lot of issues with your definition of art as being 'high' and 'low'. I very much subscribe to the notion that art should provoke an emotional reaction in the person viewing it. That, to me, is what art should be about. Television, cinema, radio, pantomimes, pop songs - they are all forms of art which provoke a response. Who's to say they're 'Low' art? To someone, somewhere, they're art. That's all that matters.
 
I'm not in the least bit offended by what you said on the site by the way, and I really hope you don't think I'm snapping - I don't mean to at all. I'm just intrigued that you choose to label people in that way. In any way, really. yes, I talk about Buffy a lot, yes I do take an active part in that fandom and yes I do talk about deadlines and the like. But I'm Shona. I'm not 'Buffy Fan'.
 
 
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[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 07:19 am (UTC)
I find his words extremely elitist and offensive! I take umbrage on your behalf as well as my own! Like you, I am a literate, educated person with wide-ranging interests. But fanfiction is certainly one of them and I truly resent his attitude. One should not so easily dismiss something one knows absolutely nothing about!


Gabrielle
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 07:32 am (UTC)
Rob's a cool guy normally, quite a dry sense of humour at times that can sound offensive (and to be honest, downright crude at times)

He was using me to illustrate a point he made where someone (and it may even have been me, I certainly remember the conversation in the staff room) accused he and Matt (a good friend of mine) of being geeks because they watched too much television. Rob was trying to make the point that one should experience everything one can once, but to repeat the experience and become mired in it is a bad thing (from his point of view). I understand where he's coming from, and in a sense I do agree with him - I'm just surprised he took one of my interests and labelled me with that as if that label is all I am.
[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 07:43 am (UTC)
I find his thesis incomprehensible! No one could, for example, become a historian or an archaeologist were they to follow his dictum! Or a doctor or lawyer even! Because such studies require one to become, as he put it, "mired" in them. Even a lay interest in such subjects is one that one becomes immersed in if one wants to have any understanding of the intricacies contained therein. But according to Rob, it would seem, we should all just read one or two books on any subject and then flit on to the next...Jacks-of-all trades, masters of none! Why are dilettantes so intent on converting the rest of the world to their butterfly ways?

Yes, I am more than a bit irritated with your friend...why do you ask? LOL Sorry to rant, but he struck a nerve with me!


Gabrielle
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 07:57 am (UTC)
Absolutely, I do agree that he is essentially robbing himself (no pun intended) of the chance to fully explore a subject by just skimming the surface and moving on. On the the other hand I also agree that life should be about experiencing as wide a range of things as possible.

He mentioned in the same post on his blog that that week he'd 'learned all about the Holy Grail' - which I'm sure would intrigue all those hisorians who've made it their live's work to 'learn all about the Holy Grail'. I know a little about the story of the Grail because of my interest in anthropology, but I would never claim I've 'learned all about it' (especially not by reading the Da Vinci Code).

The other point to make about Rob is this - he's still really young. He's 21 or 22 and is essentially still finding his path. In fact, just as I typed that I'm reminded of a Mark Twain quote - "Discover the path, and make it yours". He's discovering paths but not exploring them, it'd be a shame if he missed his.

Wow, that got deep!
[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 08:08 am (UTC)
When I was his age, I was never fool enough to think I knew even close to everything about ANYTHING! And I'm still not! I had a friend like him once, and age never cured her of her stunning ability to believe that one could learn all one needed to know about a subject (and enough to be an "expert") by reading two or three books on the subject. I hope time has a more chastening effect on YOUR friend than it did on mine!


Gabrielle...still "mired" in the intricacies of my personal "pigeons" (those subjects I've been immersed in the exploration of since my early teens)
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 08:14 am (UTC)
Let's hope so. He's the one who's really losing out I think, as you said, his philosophy will potentially lead him to be a Jack-Of-All-Trades and someone who (apologies Rob because I know you do read this from time to time) will be the soap-box orator in the local pub who thinks he knows everything about everything.

Time may make a difference, I hope he does find his path and that he ceases to ridicule people who have found theirs. (Not that I have at all, I'm 30 and still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!)
[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 08:24 am (UTC)
I don't think having fields of study one is passionately devoted to means that one has glued one's feet to a particular path in life! I may have subjects I find compelling enough to have continued exploring for 25 years, but that doesn't mean that any of them define me or my life! Like you, I'm still trying to figure out what I wish to be when I grow up...and I'm 37! One is much more than the sum of one's parts, and one is not defined or, by definition, exalted by the number of subjects one has flitted through the superficial examination of!


Gabrielle
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 08:32 am (UTC)
Exactly. I will be the first to admit that I do have a slight tendancy to become deeply immersed in a topic when it grabs my attention - if something interests me then I do devote a lot of time and energy to exploring it - but I am so much more than a list of those interests, especially so narrow a list as Rob would have me be.
[identity profile] velvetwhip.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 08:36 am (UTC)
I am much the same, Sho! And, while I have far more interests than just the ones I'm known for online, I, too, am far more than the sum of those interests...I'm a complete, complex human being.


Gabrielle
[identity profile] smhwpf.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 01:44 pm (UTC)
Never knew about the anthropology and Egyptology thangs! Kept those quiet!

Yeah, very silly views. That "Ha, ha, I'm so superior, I don't allow myself to get really into any particular thing, I'm above all that" thing. There's a word for people who aren't really interested in anything other than perhaps getting pissed on a Saturday night: BORING!

(Though I'm sure actually from what you say that he is not. but the views expressed are.)
(Reply) (Link)
[identity profile] rileysaplank.livejournal.com on February 15th, 2005 02:37 pm (UTC)
In total agreement with you here. Most people I meet will probably know within an hour of meeting me that I'm a Buffy fan, but there's so much more to me than that and I'd never want to be defined as just a Buffy fan as Rob seems to have done here with you.

(Anonymous) on February 19th, 2005 02:15 pm (UTC)
Haha.
Hello Buffy fans.

This is Rob.

I'm better than each and every one of you.

Suck my cock.

That is all.

X-D
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on February 19th, 2005 11:51 pm (UTC)
Re: Haha.
Rob? You're an arse.

I hope to hell you were wasted when you posted this because otherwise, know how I said I'd stop winding you up about it soon? Forget it.