It's a sad, sad day when one is not allowed to make one's opinions known in one's very own LJ! It's not like she flamed an author in their LJ or something...sheesh!


Gabrielle

What really irks me is that those who are being so confrontational about it are denying her what they're asking for themselves - freedom of speech. Beggars belief really.

I completely concur! What is twistedly comic is that such people cannot see their own glaring hypocrisy!


Gabrielle

I posted my own show of support for her.

And, yeah, I'm with you on the squicking about RPS/RPF. I've just leaned to scroll past everything when I see it on my Flist. And I'm not terribly thrilled that the su_herald has started listing RPS/RPF stories.

*shrug*

Not much anyone can do about it though. And obviously there's an audience for it or it wouldn't be there.

I really wasn't going to say anything at all, but the more I thought about it the more it bugged me that the people confronting her for her opinion were denying her what they wanted for themselves - a forum to post what they wanted to say. So I posted. :)

I mean, really are we obliged to love everything that's written?

Really, if saying I don't get it is such a crime, lock me up, loads of stuff I don't get from Gay Now / Straight Now, Uber Super Mega character, Stuing, all normal got nothing to do with canon AU's, and yes, RP anything.

IMO, Real people, real feelings, real whoop ass if you go around saying they're into incest / devil worshipping / whatever the hell they might think is offensive.

Liz put it really well in her response to leadensky - fandom is not so widely recognised in 'real life'. We all get so caught up in it online that we forget things like High Court Judges aren't usually part of fandom and will not generally accept the 'it's only fiction' excuse in a libel case.

Personally, I never saw the point of RPS/F. What I enjoyed were the characters. The actors are nice, sure, but why blur the line between real and fiction anymore than it already is? Still, I also agree with the "don't like, don't read" rule there too. I don't like it, that doesn't mean that others don't have a right to.

I just wish I could get inspired to write again, darn it. There's a spoof of an RPF moment coming up in Roman Holiday that I'm really impatient to write *g*

Despite people denying it, it has to be said that the main focus of RPF/RPS is people the writer thinks are hot 'getting it on'. I don't read it so I don't know what the majority of RPF/RPS fic is, but from what I've seen skimming my flist (and su_herald) it's all NC-17. I get that, kinda, but really - these are real people. If you prick them, do they not bleed? Just because they make their living by presenting their image to the world, I don't see how that makes it right to assume that gives anyone access to their lives.

I'm a Nick Brendon fan. I own both Pinata and Psycho Beach Party and will buy Unholy when it's released. I'm also a Christian Kane fan - again with the owning of films I would never otherwise have bought. I would never presume to put the two of them together. Xander and Lindsey on the other hand? Absolutely. I see the difference, I respect that difference, I guess some people just don't.

What can I do to inspire your muse by the way? 'Cause you've piqued my interest in Roman Holiday even more now! (Have I ever commented on that story by the way? If I haven't I'm so sorry! I love it to pieces!)

It's less a matter of public image vs rights of the person than a simple problem of real vs fictional for me. RPS makes real people into fictional characters. For some reason, that's something that makes me uncomfortable *shrugs*

Still, I respect everyone's right to read what they want.

As for RH, the idea has been floating around in my head for months now. It's potentially huge. A really good joke. And no, it's only a light-hearted spoof of RPF, not real RPF, although I will be deliberately blurring the lines for a while just for comedy's sake :)

My muse, if there is such a thing, has temporarily deserted me. This doesn't mean I stopped writing, just that I stopped liking what it is that I've written. Hopefully, my head will get back to good in a while and I'll be back to posting again soon. I really do want to finish RH before November after all.

Ooh! Love the new layout, BTW!

I've actually just been thinking about those little references some writers will throw into fics that show the characters are somehow aware of their status as fictional characters - one story which I adored and keep forgetting the name and author of, is a B/X fic (pre-shipping) set in the summer between S4 and 5. Xander tries to explain the storylines of some of the WB shows to Buffy and gives up when it comes to Tuesday night because he doesn't like those shows. (I'm going to hunt for that story by the way - it's very cute.)

... anyway, long story short, I remembered a sorta-RPF I did read a few years back and enjoyed. It's PG, doesn't ship anyone at all, and is basically what would happen if Xander ended up in the 'real world' and Nick ended up in the 'Buffyverse'. I remember it being cleverly done even if it's a little tedious towards the end. House of Mirrors (http://www.zachsmind.com/buffy/699BuffyFanficHouseOfMirrors.html). So now I'm starting to question myself - I appreciated that story but I dislike RPFs. Is it the exception that proves the rule, am I hypocritical, or is this something... different?

On a fanart perspective, I steer away from using pictures I consider to be of Nick when I'm making Xander fanart. I think that's why I had trouble with the second CD cover for Liz. I was manipulating a Nick Brendon candid shot (the one in this icon) and placing Xander's eye-patch over it. That felt wrong to me - still does in a way - and I can't really explain why. It's the same when I see those Alyson Hannigan 'lingerie' pictures used as Willow images - maybe I'm just strange in seeing the demarcation line there but I guess I do.

Is it the exception that proves the rule, am I hypocritical, or is this something... different?

I suppose its all down to the use the real people involved are put to, so to speak *waggles eyebrows*

On a fanart perspective, I steer away from using pictures I consider to be of Nick when I'm making Xander fanart.

I'm a bit more mercenary there (see the icon for this comment *s*). Only with user pics though. I have used RL pictures of some actors before. Just face shots that were publicly released however. I mostly have to resort to that for NB because of the dearth of Xander-pictures out there. Well, that and there's more to work with on a non-Xander image, to be honest. It carries less baggage for me. I do draw the line to only using publicly available publicity photos though. And I wouldn't feel comfortable photoshopping in the eye patch either.

Why does everyone do that BTW? I mean, most post-Chosen fanfic/fanart shows him with the eye patch. If only for health reasons (i.e. filling the gaping hole in his head to prevent dust/dirt getting into his eye socket) wouldn't Xander just go for the more practical glass eye solution? And this being the Jossverse, there's the whole magical cure solution to work with as well. *g*

Nick has stated that if "Buffy : This time it's personal!" or something ever happens he wants Xander to have the eyepatch. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for authors to keep the eyepatch look.

I remember something like that. But from a realistic POV (let us pretend the Jossverse is realistic for a minute, eh? *g*) wouldn't a glass eye be more practical for health concerns?

With the kind of job Xander's gone to Africa to do, the situations he's going to face, the chances for infection and so on are increased if he keeps a gaping hole where his eye used to be, aren't they? Sure, the eye patch is cool in a pirate-esque/Escape from New York sort of way, but it isn't necessarily the best way of protecting the socket, is it?

Just thinking out loud though. I've written him with the eye patch myself and will most probably do so again :)

I think I can forgive you for using that picture because to be honest, it just makes me grin every time I see it!

And for the eyepatch? I'm not sure why so many people insist on keeping it - it way have something to do with Nick having said he'd want to see it if Xander ever returned to our screens. Honestly though, it imposes extra limits on a writer (or artist) which are just irritating.

Gonna jump in here and agree with you on this point. Anyone that knows anything about me knows I'm a big Willow and Aly fan. And have therefore obviously come across the lingerie shots of Aly. But that's exactly the point, they're Aly - not Willow. And I would never consider using those images as images of Willow, because they are so clearly not.

Where I am different from you on this point is that if there is a candid photo of Aly that could plausibly be Willow, then I have no problems using it as a Willow image.

Got it - Seven Day Holiday in the Rain With You (http://www.geocities.com/bxfanfic/sevenday.html) by Draxar (I was just thining how embarrassing that would be if I found it and it had been one of yours! Not that I'd have forgotten one of your fics...)

Ooh! Love the new layout, BTW! Thanks! Still not 100% content with it - may be using the header and colours and moving over to Tranquility II soon!

Oh, I remember that one! There's also a fic where the old gang all sit down to watch Dawson's Creek together that cracks me up as well :)

As for the layout, it's the Mara header and icon that does it for me. Seeing the motif repeated like that is very effective. I'll be very interested to see your Tranquility II version. Don't hesitate to ask if you want any tweaks... of the s2 code, I mean! Get your mind out of the gutter! *g*

Last week, it was slash that was being discussed in a few people's LJ's. Apparently, this week it's RPF/RPS.

I don't have a fully formed opinion on it, really, except that I get squickly when it appears that RPF is being done because the writer (and apparently the audience) is conflating the actors involved with the characters they play. That's pretty much how I first became aware of it, in fact, way back in BtVS S4/AtS S1, when a small segment of B/A 'shippers began shipping SMG/DB in earnest, seizing upon the end of DB's first marriage and rumors of SMG being involved with various castmates from either TV or movies (not just DB but also Jerry O'Connell, Ryan Phillippe, and Freddie Prinze, Jr. -- uh, never mind). I only recently found out on TWoP that there were apparently rumors of a Buffy cast member visiting an Angel cast member onset and leaving with "stars in HER eyes" back then that fueled this stuff (let alone that apparently it was actually AH visiting AD). And ultimately, despite all consistent denials from both SMG and DB that they were ever involved in a RL relationship, there are still some out there who insist on stating as fact that they were and that it obviously informed the B/A chemistry.

I once followed a link to an LJ communtity dedicated to the RP "fiction" wink-wink-nudge-nudge notion that Spuffy and it's canon depiction was actually inspired by a RL SMG/JM sexual relationship -- although the folks were admitting that, yeah, this was fic, they were clearly conflating the dynamics of "their" SMG/JM ship with those of Spuffy, with SMG repeatedly coming to JM for "hot weasel sex" while publicly staying in a relationship with FPJ yet denying that the JM sex was "infinitely better" or that her 'ship with FPJ was shallow and a dead end for her.

A year or two ago, somebody at the Yahoogroup for C/X fanfic tried to start a poll asking folks whether or not they thought CC and NB, if they weren't married to other people, would make a good couple. I kinda yelled at the poster that CC and NB weren't their characters and what they were doing wasn't kosher.

I've even seen somebody try to do an RPF about NB/SMG. I might've considered B/X my favorite ship, but even I wouldn't go that far. (Although I'm certainly not upset by accounts that many of the Buffyverse cast, including SMG and NB, are apparently still friendly with each other, but I consider that the same as when I run into former coworkers of my own and say "Hey, how's it going?")

That's what squicks me about RPF, when it conflates actors with their characters and the relationships as well. RPS, much like slashfic in general, just escapes me. (Or not -- there've been a couple of times I've learned of people making wrong assumptions about my sexuality based on shallow and indirect information, and I've reacted with, "Please don't assume I'm gay just because I grew my hair long, wore an earring, aren't dating anybody, or dressed as the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live for a funny skit in high school." Yes, I was a teenager in the 80's, and yes, my home town was small enough that some folks actually thought this was evidence that I was gay. Apparently, all the guys with short hair, no body piercings, and no instances of cross-dressing who weren't dating anybody either were "clearly" straight.)