Why is Xander in Africa? Is he out there 'cause he's just travelling through? Is he working with/for the Council?

1) The Council needed someone, the ranks of Watchers have been culled, a number of those left turned to the other side, so Xander went.

2) He's trying to escape his memories, and flaxen-haired women like Anya are rare in Africa.

I think it's a little bit of both.

What about Willow, what's she doing in Brazil?

Partying her pants off and getting into tiffs with local machismo-sensitive wizards.

And here's the kicker, why do a lot of people apparently believe that Willow is working and Xander isn't?

I don't know. I assume the exact opposite, and I believe that Andrew's line in "Damage" -- "They're based in Sao Paulo, but, um, every time I talk to them, they're in Rio." -- backs me up in this.

That's kind of the same reading I take from it as well. It's implied by Andrew that both are in their respective continents on Council business, but it's specifically mentioned that Willow is partying as much as working). The same isn't said of Xander so I get the impression he's more actively working in Africa.

On the other hand there's the Jane Espenson stance of 'everything Andrew says should be taken with a pound of salt'...

And extra salt, to be sure, considering it's what Andrew's telling Angel, who he certainly doesn't trust (as shown by the 20 slayers at the end of the ep).

And I can't let go of this one.

Xander, post-school, is shown as being as industrious as he can. He's always working, or at least trying to work. Once he found a good match between him and a job, he rose quickly and dramatically.

Willow, as far as I can figure, has never worked a day in her life. Well, except for teaching for Ms. Calendar, which is kinda different. There are times when she's offered the opportunity to challenge herself, by going to work for It's-Really-Microsoft in "What's My Line?", by going to a major-league school. Yes, she passed it up to save the world in Sunnydale, but while academically she's living up to her parents' high expectations, but pretty much in every other area, she's probably breaking her mother's heart. (Like Kennedy's going to give anyone grandkids! B) )

(Like Kennedy's going to give anyone grandkids! B)

Thank god for that! :)

Yeah. And you can't say "Well, that's false because it's Andrew" to one and accept the offer.

Which leads me into a theory, kinda based on the previous thing. Willow has been able to skate through a lot of stuff, taking a class in high school she's qualified to teach and such. One trick to an all-A report card is to be freakin' brilliant and another is to take courses that don't challenge you, and with Willow, I see a little of both. She isn't tasked by her coursework and so we never see her do much homework in the college years. Now, she's an uberwitch in touch with her white magic side and there's very little she's much challenged on there (I don't think she's up to "Grave"-levels anymore, but even "Smashed" level magic is powerful enough to mangle reality) and so most threats are easily taken care of, allowing her to seem (and perhaps be) not terribly challenged by them.

[I'm trying to not have a "whereas Xander" part. So far, I'm restraining myself.]

Of course, taking into account what was happening and who said it, you can also disregard that information as a case of Giles not really wanting to help.

In short, you can believe whatever the heck you want to believe.

Bad Shona, bad! :)

Procastinating is such a difficult word for such a common thing.


As for the Xander & Willow thing, that's not my experience at all. Maybe it's got more to do with you having more Willow fans and maybe Xander not fans in you flist?

So, maybe Xander's not in Africa, since the info comes from Andrew.

If he is in Africa he's doing the Council's bidding.

It might be because Africa is fairly "easy", but that would be very counter common perception and even what we've seen in the series, since Africa is a place of powerful forces.

Or he's in Africa because it's hard and he's trying to prove himself and also, IMO, just a little bit, maybe, get himself killed.

Also, Africa would be far removed from he's earlier life, less memories. It's also far from the Scoobs, which, depending on your view on Season 7 could be a blessing or a curse.


Willow, well, Brazil is filled with hot babes. :) Is she working? Sure, maybe killing Chaos Demons and stuff, but Willow is so powerful that IMO it's hard to see her as really having that many problems with work. Also Brazil is seen as safer than Africa, and it is, as least certain than certain parts of Africa, though there are loads of problems. Or maybe she's not in Brazil at all.

Also, same thing as with Xander, the Scoobs are far away, and taking into account who her girlfriend is, being far from Buffy would be a good thing. My own view on Kennedy has her as being friendly with Xander though, so...

I think you may be right with the demographic thing - although as I said to Liz there, it still strikes me as odd that there is an assumption that Xander's goofing off whilst Willow is working away. I'm not going to say he isn't goofing off, because we simply don't know, the evidence on the other hand points to Willow being a 'good time girl' in Brazil however, so to assume she's working away while Xander isn't just seems.... odd.
:)

You're talking about the man who was mean to Willow all her life, who was mean and prejudiced against vampires, especially that poor, harmless, just wanna be loved woobie, Spike!

He took advantage of Faith, poor girl, couldn't resist his advances...

Heck, he's a woman hater, just look at how he treated that earth mother type, Anya or how he verbally abused that helpless, couldn't defend herself Cordelia!

And Buffy? Always trying to keep her down, making her feel less than she was, making her feel like a worthless, good for nothing woman!

Really, it's obvious he's in love with Angel and Riley and Spike too, and is just taking out his self hating gay tendencies on the women on his life!

Is there anyone who doesn't have a slightly odd view of the characters? :)

It might be because Africa is fairly "easy", but that would be very counter common perception and even what we've seen in the series, since Africa is a place of powerful forces.

I see this in terms of The Pentagon's New Map. The Functioning Core has institutions and connectivity. Connectivity means angry mobs and pitchforks, which means you keep a low profile until your plan is together, or you'll end up like Dru. Institutions mean there's something going on to beat back the darkness. Maybe it's the Council of Watchers. Maybe it's the Initiative. Something's out there, watching. Africa is in the Non-Integrating Gap. There are no institutions; the roads aren't paved. I read a story about a mechanic in Haiti who had no wrenches so he had to take off lug nuts with a cold chisel and hammer. So the problems are not being taken care of. And the consolidation of power in such places often has a mystical element. The Tonton Macoute had a reputation for being voodoo masters. (Again, Haiti, not Africa, but still, there are examples in African history, just not where I can easily access them.) If there's a place where the Council (or whatever) is faced with hard but necessary work that might not succeed, it's Africa. If there's a place where the Council needs to call in the cavalry again and again, it's Africa. It isn't easy.

Ummm, this is the first time I've ever heard "Xander's the one goofing off and Willow is the one who's actually working."

Even on boards that aren't Xander-friendly I've never heard this. I've always heard the assumption go the other way, for many of the reasons ludditerobot said.

I think a bit part of this is the demographic reading the post on Emmy's journal, there are a lot more Willow fans there than there are Xander fans (not that they're particularly anti-Xander, he just doesn't feautre much). I must admit I was a little surprised to see the results myself - it just seems to contrary to what is said in canon (whether we can view Andrew as a reliable narrator or not) that to make the assumption that Xander isn't working when Willow is just seems... odd.

:)

(btw, changed the category for Contrite Spirits - thanks for getting back to me about it!)

I don't necessarily believe a word Andrew has to say because he has such a... flexible relationship with the truth. If Giles or Xander (or anybody else he fears or looks up to) told him not to tell Angel where anybody really was or what they were really doing, Andrew would do it without a moment's hesitation; especially if he was told to use his imagination--so much more interesting than facts, isn't it?

But if Xander really is in Africa, I bet it's because he's doing something necessary, whether for the Council or somebody else. I don't see Xander as the kind of person who has any peace of mind if he doesn't have something worthwhile to do. (I feel that Xander would worry about turning out like his drunken, layabout dad.)

Why do people believe Willow is working and Xander isn't?

I really don't know. I suspect they see him a lot differently than I do, though.

It's interesting to see this from different perspectives like this - the people who answered emeraldswan's poll don't hate Xander (I don't think), they just aren't fans of *him* outside of the ensemble neceswarily.

We (the Xander fan we that is) are so used to thinking of Xander as 'fighting the good fight' in Africa, that it's kinda interesting to see that not everyone thinks that automatically. Does that make sense?

This line of questioning is particularly relevant to me since Xander in Africa was one of the "fanon" elements I've kept in my own AU, and also something I rather conveniently glossed over in terms of his motivations (long off-screen talk with Giles). Don't know if I'll get into his reasons after I bring him back, but a little goes a long way. To me it's not machismo or trying to prove himself, but a lot of grief and emptiness, combined with wanting to be useful; finally fulfilling the prophecy of "Restless", becoming a Watcher; wanting to be someplace that reminds him of as few familiar memories as possible; possibly feeling compelled when he hears that Africa is and has always been the part of the world with the least Watchers for the amount of area it covers. (My own off the cuff fanwank.)

I like the idea that Andrew would use his imagination if instructed not to go blabbing every little detail of the new Council's doings and whereabouts, but I also have to think that by "Damage" he's smart enough to realize -- or have been told by Giles -- that it's a waste of effort to make something up when the truth will do as well or better.

That's one thing I really love about some of the stories I've read post-Chosen, the soul-searching (pardon the Spike-centric pun) aspect of Africa. The idea that Xander went there to find himself again, to completely remove himself from everything familiar to try and discover who he is again.

And as ludditerobot said, he's not likely to run into too many Anya look-alikes out there!

And here's the kicker, why do a lot of people apparently believe that Willow is working and Xander isn't?

There are people who think Xander isn't working? I kinda figured it the other way around, with Willow... working, but lounging on the beach alot to and with our poor desolate 'all alone' Xander slaving through desert and jungle and outback and city and slum all the while planning that second fallout base in Cairo!

I keep coming back to the idea that Andrew's comments in Damage cannot really be taken at face value. Willow as we saw her at the end of the season had moved past 'surface' gratification, she'd experienced magic in what we're given to believe is it's truest, whitest form. Some R&R after that would be expected, but I don't actually see her being happy to party in Rio for too long.

So was Andrew misleading Angel & Co. by telling them that the most powerful witch in the world was partying? Maybe.

I guess we'll never really know for sure!

There was a particularly spiteful remark Andrew made in "Damage" about Angel and the reasons he didn't have any clout with Buffy anymore. Spiteful both for Angel and Buffy herself (who came off as a bit of a slut in Andrew's eyes). Then, in TGIQ, Andrew's living with her and Dawn. So basically, I decided Andrew was a fucking hypocrite and a waste of my air and ignored him.

With the Council destroyed, the gang needed some kind of stop gap. Logically therefore, the separate continents plan makes sense in a way. It's sad because it does mean the end of the Scoobs (no matter how much someone fanwanks it, people drift apart when they stay apart, that's just life). For me, as a B/X fan, that's kind of good too because a B/X 'ship post-Chosen involves characters who are quite different now and therefore can believably have a whole new kind of relationship.

When I send Xander to Africa, it's less because of what Andrew said and more because it makes sense to me that the Xander we saw in season 7 would do what he could to help out in a bad situation. Whether he's an uber-success as Indiana Harris is another matter, but I do think he'd be working as hard as he could to get the job done.

I don't see Willow as partygirl in Rio. Not in the sense of debauched sexfests with her nubile lover and no attention to the real world. Likewise, I don't see her as doing as hard a job as Xander precisely because a lot of problems for her could be resolved with a flick of the hand (something that Juvenile!Willow - the girl she became as the seasons unfolded - might have no moral problems with seeing as she's fighting evil and not using magic for personal gain). In nemo-land, she falls somewhere in the middle. Doing the job and getting bored. Hanging out with Kennedy on the beach more than a lot.

It's interesting for me to note that every Scoob but Xander had someone with them after going their separate ways. Buffy had Dawn and was on the same continent as Giles. Willow had Kennedy and presumably could teleport if she really had to. Faith had Robin. But Xander is on his own.

As to why some/most fans believe in Willow more than Xander, I think it's just 'cause Willow has more fans, really. Sad, 'cause Xander has a lot more potential still to be developed, but there you go.

It's interesting for me to note that every Scoob but Xander had someone with them after going their separate ways. Buffy had Dawn and was on the same continent as Giles. Willow had Kennedy and presumably could teleport if she really had to. Faith had Robin. But Xander is on his own.

What caught my attention is that, in terms of time zones, Europe and Africa are the same. So, for most of the places Xander could go, he'd be on the same time as Buffy, and at most one or two hours off, while he's seven six away from Willow in Brazil. This means it's easier to find a reasonable time to talk to Buffy than to Willow. Or with Dawn, if you go D/X. Add to this the fact that the fastest way between two African capitols is a flight through a European airport, if he's really moving around, he'd have plenty of chances to visit the Summers girls.

Hey, these glasses are kinda red or pink or something! Like the color of a rose!

I mentioned in another one of the replies that I think Willow has gone beyond surface gratification. The 'pleasures of the flesh', if you will. I think that yes, she's going to take some time to party - hell, if I was in Brazil I'd wanna see the Carnival! - but is that all she's doing? Doubt it.

Flipside, Xander in Africa, tough continent, wartorn, famine, drought, the human condition laid bare - at its very best and very worst. Does he take time out to party? Of course he does.

Your point about Willow fans outnumbering the Xander fans has merit, and I do tend to agree - of all the characters on the show I think that Xander is the one with the most potential come the end of season seven (no 'potential' puns intended!). Everyone elses story arc had either ended or come full circle - Xander? Wode open.

(well, there's Dawn and Faith who also have open story arc possibilities, but hey, that's why those three were the characters I definitely wanted in _inthedarkness *g*)

Xander not working? Like most people, surprised anyone would think that. But then I have a lot of Xan fans on my flist! *g*

I like the idea of Xander going for the most difficult and dangerous assignment. I'm not sure I'd see it as 'finding himself' though as has been suggested, more the opposite: avoiding facing his demons by throwing himself into a situation of hardship and danger, where he may be exposed to extremes of human misery and horror. (Certainly if he's gone to any of the war-torn areas etc.) Kind of the opposite of going to a monastery in Tibet or something.

Andrew needs to be taken with a pound of salt, but I don't see why he'd randomly make up that Xander's in Africa. He'd make up a story about what Xander or someone was doing there, sure, or he might tell a cover story, but I think we can pretty muchtake the fact of him being there as at least likely. Willow on the other hand, he said "She's supposed to be based in Sao Paolo but whenever I call her she's in Rio" - that could easily mean he called her once when she was in Rio and that's become that she's always in Rio in the telling.

I like to think they're all working for the cause one way or another, though I'm sure Willow and K are taking some quality time as well! The only one I'd think might go 'find herself' is Buffy, though Andrew seemed to be saying in Damage that he was taking orders from her.

I have to admit, that my view of Xander in Africa tends to change depending on my own mood. There are the days when I think his being there (apparently alone) is akin to Faith's actions in the Angel 5x5, Sanctuary arc - suicide-by-proxy. Other days I think he's doing the soul-searching thing (still can't think that term without having Spike images in my head! Dammit! *g*) Other days, I think he's doing what he's always done - what needs to be done. And then there are the days when I think he went because he wanted to see Timbuktu. (About which I actually write a particularly angsty funereal ficlet which will not be posted until I find my Willow voice again. *g*)

I guess I'm just fickle. :)