02 August 2009 @ 03:23 pm
I still feel like the bad guy...  
I just had to make this mod post at the [livejournal.com profile] i_need_a_parrot comm.

Part of me is in two minds as to the whole thing. I loathe doing plagiarism investigations because me and confrontation don't go together all that well. I was plagiarised once, a whole passage was lifted out of What a Difference a Day Makes by one of the most... notorious, shall we say, plagiarists in the Xander fandom. (What made it worse was that this person had given the chapter a positive review on FF.net when I still posted there so this person didn't even plausible deniability when uncovered - the one passage of mine was but a drop in the ocean in that particular instance though).

Back to the point though, retelling a film/song/book/myth/whatever by replacing the characters with fandom ones? Is it plagiarism? I've said no (when the source is properly credited as it was in the instance in question) and I'm aware that in the SPN fandom there was actually a challenge last year (may well be running this year as well, I dunno, it's RPS so it's not my thing) in which 'classic' films were to be rewritten featuring J2. (I beta'd one, that's how I know about it - the comm had 'reel' in the name, but that's all I remember right now)

I dunno. Personally these are not my thing at all. Yeah, sure, using a film/myth as a kicking off point - absolutely. But rewriting it in it's entireity? Why? I just...*

I feel like the bad guy here, no matter what I do.

(Sho needs a reminder that she runs the sites because she enjoys it...)

BTW - I never knew the human body could turn such interesting colours. There's a whole damn spectrum right there on my hand.

* ETA on the other hand (and after another pain pill has kicked in) isn't it more of a challenge to a writer to focus so intensely on a story? Me, when I'm writing, I often wonder at the twists and turns the characters take me. I don't think I could be disciplined enough to follow a plot laid out by another writer. Hell, [livejournal.com profile] moscow_watcher should probably know that Crimson Regret was the one story I started with a definite end in site and yet when I started writing it the characters didn't like that ending and as such the story has faltered. It will finish when I acknowledge it and get back to writing it. (straww poll: original concept ending or character influenced ending? Either can be made to work!)

*is confused about everything*
*morphine is awesome* (as a prescribed pain relief medication, obvs.)
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[identity profile] smhwpf.livejournal.com on August 2nd, 2009 10:26 pm (UTC)
Not plagiarism if credited.

I think there can be quite a bit of mileage in retelling old stories - heck, it's done all the time - and sometimes it can work with a specific set of characters like the Buffy ones. (I re-used - with accreditation - large parts of the plot and some of the actual text of a Burns/trad song for my Ballad of Jeannie the Red)

If it's just reproducing the entire text with different characters it's probably not very good (unless it's a really remarkable fit that no-one had noticed), but that's another matter.
Technically, if you are actually giving a direct quote rather than merely using an idea, you should use quote marks or otherwise make clear you're quoting. But that's academic style, and in prose you need things to flow differently.

Ideally I'd say that if you are reproducing a long passage of text you should include an A/N to the effect that you are doing this and identifying, as far as possible, where the passage is. But if someone's not done that, if they've merely said generally that it's based on XYZ or something, I still wouldn't call it plagiarism in a fandom context, I'd just suggest to the writer that they ought to include a more specific accreditation in future.

It's always going to be difficult when this sort of borderline case comes up. You have made the best judgement you can (and it seems reasonable to me) in a tricky case and have done your best to communicate this as reasonably as possible to all concerned. Maybe not everyone's happy with the outcome, but in no way does this make you the bad guy. It's what a good moderator should be doing.

*hugs*
[identity profile] whiskyinmind.livejournal.com on August 3rd, 2009 12:40 pm (UTC)
*hugs you*

When I got the original message from the person asking for help, my heart sank because of the name of the accuser. She and I have been flisted for years and she was actually one of the moderators on the INAP site.

I just... it seemed that it all came down to the definition of plagiarism versus adaptation and whether in an adaptation one would be free to use credited content (in this case dialogue) from the original.

I spent four years studying postmodernity in my degree and it seems to be that it's the perfect example of what Fredric Jameson called 'intertextual knowingness' and 'empty pastiche'. Does that make it good? Depends on the writer really. Does it make it right? Difficult to answer. Does it make it plagiarism? I honestly don't think it can be said to be such since the source is fully acknowledged and credited.

Hopefully it's just a flash in the pan and it'll blow over soon enough.

*hugs*